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Sunday Roundtable: DC Comics, Should it Be One Cinematic Universe?

JLA Roundtabledc movie and tvWelcome back for our second Sunday Roundtable where the Graphic Policy team take on a topic and discuss it throughout the week. On tap?

Though we’ve only had hints so far, DC Comics has split their television and movie universes (there’s two Flash for example). Should it have all been integrated? Discuss!

Monique: I would have preferred it if everything was integrated as it would feel a lot more real. It’s nice when things are connected and fun when audiences can spot things that link the DC universe together. However it’s nice to have a TV show to look forward to every week.

Alex: I think in many ways splitting them up gives each show more creative freedom (but if rumours are true, then Arrow had to drop Deadshot because of the Suicide Squad movie – not 100% sure on that, though).

batman v s uperman dawn of justiceMr. H: I like it split. We all know Batman V Superman is going to be epic, but I like the feel of shows like Arrow and Flash which have done beyond what I’ve ever expected. DC owns the small screen for sure! I am looking forward to Legends of Tomorrow and Supergirl as well. It like in wrestling, you have the main eventers and the mid carders. The tv shows are the midcarders and let you appreciate it more because they work harder. Personally I want an Aquaman show. It’s well over due and the time is right. I hope they don’t integrate because they give us different flavors. Like on a tv show we might get underutilized characters like Ralph Dibney. Where we wouldn’t on a movie. For everyone that likes chocolate chip. There’s always someone that likes Butter Pecan. Good quote (Identity Crisis)

Brett: But is it really split? DC is all about the multiverse. There’s no reason we can’t see some giant Crisis film and the multiple same characters come together. I actually think DC has an advantage over Marvel due to that.

Alex: You know what? I had never thought of that until you mentioned it, Brett. That being said, will it actually happen? It’d be awesome if it did, but I suspect we are at least five to ten years away from that possibility.

Monique: That is a very interesting point, never thought of it like that Brett.

Alex wouldn’t it be relative to their budget though? If we’re talking about Marvel, Samuel Jackson was in the movies Iron Man, Avengers, Captain America but made an appearance Agents of Shield.

arrowBrett: Yeah, it’s interesting that DC is dominating the small screen too with this strategy and it’s allowed them to do such diverse programming. Agents of Shield had been so hit and miss. It really just feels like I watch the season to get to the movie tie in. DC I watch because it’s good television that also has geeky easter eggs.

And adding to DC too is their web content. They launched the Vixen animated series which is set in the Arrow/Flash universe.

Monique: Yeah, I’ve been watching it, it’s fantastic. I agree, they’re definitely dominating in all aspects and I think they always have done really, in terms of shows movies and cartoons

Alex: I think that’s the advantage to Shield; because it has the movie tie ins, more people are willing to stick it out on the lows. DC’s TV shows have to be consistently good (which is only a good thing for fans).

Elana: The vixen launch was not adequately promoted. I didn’t find out it already started in fact! As for the division I just really resent them turning Green Arrow into Batman. Admittedly I never watch the show because it so obviously had nothing at all to do with the character that I actually love. But it’s just aargh.

Alex: I’m enjoying Arrow so far, but I also agree with you Elana. It feels far too Batman like at times (I know Green Arrow was at one time very imitative of Bats, but I’m pretty sure that was long ago). I’ve never read any Green Arrow, though, so I don’t really have much expectation of what he should be.

Brett: I also find it interesting that DC has really played with the tone of each television series, and wonder if we’ll see that carry over to the movies.

Alex: Do DC have a similar structure governing their television/cinematic output that Marvel had up until recently? I ask because I wonder whether the tonality has been a conscious choice of a group, or simply the creative freedom allowed by DC’s approach.

theflash_full_costumeBrett: As far as how it tv ties to movies? Nope. Everything stands on its own so far. There’s the Arrow/Flash/Vixen/Constantine universe, there’s the Man of Steel/upcoming movies, and there’s Supergirl and Lucifer (not counting iZombie). Each has their own tone/style even within their own grouping.

Shield‘s style mimics the films I think, and that seems to also hamper it a bunch. Agent Carter wasn’t vital to the film narrative and felt a bit free to me.

People give DC a lot of crap, but when it comes to TV they’re knocking out of the park (plus their animated stuff). And the movies are set up, it looks like, for similar freedom.

Alex: It’s true. Last year Constantine was one of the best shows on air before it was cancelled. And whilst I keep hearing great things about Gotham I stopped watching after the first four or five episodes. Why? Because it was competing for my time with Shield (yes, I know they air on different nights, but I DVR most things and watch them later), and Shield has the benefit of being part of the MCU.

If Fox can pull off an X-Men TV show, do you think it’ll be odd essentially having two Marvel TV universes or not?

Brett: No different than it is now, right? The big difference is DC controls all of its output (or parts of their parent company does), unlike Marvel.

Here’s something that’d fit the discussion, is there too much when it comes to television shows. We have to be near saturation in film, but how many shows is too many shows? If there even is such a thing.

Alex: Honestly, for me, we’re dangerously close to over saturation. My wife isn’t as big a comic fan as I am, and really only wants to watch a few shows (Flash, Arrow and maybe Heroes or Supergirl), which leaves me a lot to squeeze at other times; and obviously things fall by the wayside, and I end up not watching half of what I want to watch.

Do any of you have a list of shows you’re willing to drop s the season goes on?

Brett: I review them, hard to drop them! The one good thing is that some won’t be out in the Fall and will be out in the Winter, but there’s still about a half dozen this fall?

Melissa Benoist Supergirl 2Add on top of it, some are going head to head. It’s Gotham vs Supergirl Mondays!

Alex: Yeah, I suppose you’re slightly more obligated to watch them than I am, eh?

Brett: But, beyond splitting the DC universe, do they risk hurting the movies because people love the shows too much? Will people who like the Flash tv show brush off a Flash tv movie? I can’t figure out if folks will let each stand on their own. Hints of reactions may be similar to reactions with the Batman and Spider-Man reboots.

Alex: I think the problem we’re closing in on isn’t that there’s simply not enough time in the day for most people to watch all the comic book TV shows and other TV shows. Laugh all you like, but next week there’s two programs starting up that I’m super excited for; the two hour Heroes Reborn premiere and, uh, Grey’s Anatomy. I’m sure that won’t be the only conflict.

Brett: I’ll admit I watch Grey‘s. I’ve dedicated all this time, I want to see how it ends. Yeah, I haven’t even thought of Heroes as a comic show, but it’s similar in subject.

Alex: To your last comment: I’m more willing to skip the Flash movie because of the TV show. Which I’m sure isn’t their intent at all.

At the end of the day, there is a lot of great TV happening this year, both comic book and not. I think there’s going to be some great shows cancelled that shouldn’t have been (like Constantine last year – I still am not over that).

Gotham: The Complete First Season out this September

1000543313BRDLEFO_9392df82With an average of 9.6 million viewers per week, Gotham has captured and held the attention of audiences since the premiere episode which delivered FOX’s highest-rated fall drama debut in 14 years with Adults 18–49. Before the series returns to FOX for a second season this fall, fans can now enjoy all 22 episodes – plus nearly 2 hours of extras including new featurettes, unaired scenes and a gag reel – when Warner Bros. Home Entertainment releases Gotham: The Complete First Season on September 8, 2015. This season’s #2 broadcast drama among men 18-34 will be available on Blu-ray and DVD for $60.10/$59.98 SRP.

Before there was Batman, there was Gotham City. Everyone knows the name of Commissioner Gordon, but what of his rise from rookie detective to Police Commissioner? What did it take to navigate the layers of corruption in Gotham City, the spawning ground of the world’s most iconic villains? Gotham tells the story of the world’s most iconic DC Comics Super-Villains and vigilantes from the very beginning, revealing an entirely new chapter that has never been told. From executive producer Bruno Heller (The Mentalist, Rome), this crime drama follows GCPD Detective James Gordon’s rise through a dangerously corrupt city, while also chronicling the genesis of one of the most popular DC Comics Super Heroes of our time. Although the crime drama follows Gordon’s turbulent and singular career, it also focuses on his unlikely friendship with the young Bruce Wayne – with his mentorship a crucial element in developing the mythology of Gotham City.

Gotham: The Complete First Season features a star-studded cast including Ben McKenzie (Southland, The O.C.) as Jim Gordon, Donal Logue (Vikings, Sons of Anarchy) as Detective Harvey Bullock, David Mazouz (Touch) as the young Bruce Wayne, Sean Pertwee (Elementary, Event Horizon) as Alfred Pennyworth, Robin Lord Taylor (The Walking Dead, Another Earth) as Oswald Cobblepot/Penguin and Jada Pinkett Smith (HawthoRNe, The Matrix Revolutions) as Fish Mooney, Also starring Zabryna Guevara, Erin Richards, Camren Bicondova, Cory Michael Smith, Victoria Cartagena, Andrew Stewart-Jones and John Doman, the drama series is produced by Warner Bros. Television. Based on the characters from DC Comics, Gotham is executive produced by Bruno Heller, Danny Cannon (Nikita, CSI series) and John Stephens (Gossip Girl).

Below are the full details of what you get in the release.

Read more

TV Review: Gotham S1E22 All Happy Families Are Alike

gotham cast All hell breaks loose on Gotham’s streets as the crime families collide. Dr. Thompkins helps Barbara through therapy. Bruce and Alfred try to find out Thomas Wayne’s secret.

Gotham wraps up its first season concluding a bunch of plot lines, but also laying things out for the second season.

The gang war has broken out in the last episode, and sort of gets wrapped up in this episode…. yes, a story that could have run an entire season is handled in about one and a half episodes. But it’s action packed with Fish actually being a decent character coming off as pretty tough. I went from hating her, to liking her in one episode. It’s a battle between the various factions, and things get pretty settled, though there’s some loose ends open.

Also, the story of Barbara and her kidnapping goes completely south in what can be summed up as the most worthless character, and strangest plot line of the season. I didn’t like the character to start, and absolutely loath her now.

More is thrown around including Selina, Nygma, and Bruce discovering something. The season ended with an absolutely packed episode with lots of highs, and lots of lows.

I think the season can be summed up in this one episode as far as quality. A lot of it was great, a lot of it not so much, a lot I wish they just go it over with. We’ll have to wait to see where things go from here, but at least it’s left in a good place. On to season two!

Overall Score: 7.5

TV Review: Gotham S1E21 The Anvil or the Hammer

gotham cast The Ogre breaks down Barbara’s emotions, while Gordon and Bullock track him down. Meanwhile, Penguin leads a massacre, beginning an epic war, while Bruce learns the truth about Wayne Enterprises and Nygma deals with his recent actions.

When last week’s Gotham ended Barbara was at The Ogre’s place and discovering his torture room. Fast forward to this episode and we’re hinted at that she’s spent the night and slept him? We’ve got some 50 Shades stuff going on here, and it further confirms to me that Barbara might be a less likeable and possibly dumber character than Fish Mooney.

For as bad as Barbara is though, it’s made up for by actor Milo Ventimiglia as the Ogre, who brings a calm, cool, and collected psychopath that is actually scary and disturbing. His is the type of villain that should have been more of a focus since the season began, instead of the more campy knock-off of classic Batman villains. Unfortunately the Ogre has to deal with Barbara who continues to barely act, and has moments that are almost laughable even though they’re not supposed to be.

Add in Nygma’s strange dark twist and further steps into the madness that will one day create the Riddler. There’s also the continued fantastic storyline featuring the Penguin and his manipulating the mob bosses into an eventual war. It’s Machiavellian in its long play, and probably the best storyline of the season.

The better part of the episode is the Penguin’s decision to amp up the war with a certain crimeboss. That is much better and more interesting as far as all of the plotlines. Along with that, the movement of Bruce’s story is quite nice as well, finally getting into more details as to the murder of his parents, a story that hasn’t quite gotten the attention it should have. Out of all of the stories this one had potential, but was never quite handled right.

Finally, Lucious Fox people!!!!

The episode has a solid build that finally pushes over the mob war tension that’s been growing all season. We knew it was coming to this point, but it’s finally nice to see it all spill over. There’s just one episode left, but the season looks like it’s ending on a high note.

Overall Score: 8.5

TV Review: Gotham S1E20 Under the Knife

gotham cast The episode continues the story of Gordon tracking down the Ogre, Bruce figuring out what’s up at Wayne Enterprises, the Penguin wanting to start a war, and finally the real birth of the Riddler.

Gotham is ending the series in a rather random way, with a mult-part story involving the serial killer, something that should have come much sooner in the series I think. It all feels a bit rushed.

There’s also the issue that the Ogre just feels like a 50 Shades rip-off. It’s not necessarily bad, but with a secret room, some S&M hints, it all just feels like a bad cash-in and attempt to connect with that audience. What I do think is interesting is that actor Milo Ventimiglia, who plays the character, actually channels some Bruce Wayne in the depiction, and I could see him taking on the role at some point.

The better part of the episode is the Penguin’s decision to amp up the war with a certain crimeboss. That is much better and more interesting as far as all of the plotlines.

There’s also a nice twist with the Riddler that I didn’t see coming.

The episode was ok to me. Not bad, not good, and a piece of the season finale. There’s some intriguing things of where they might take some characters, but overall, things seem a bit rushed to me. For once, I wish things were spread out across more episodes.

Overall Score: 7.25

TV Review: Gotham S1E19 Beasts of Prey

gotham cast Gordon and Bullock inspect a cold case involving “the Ogre”, a serial killer who targets young women in Gotham City. Meanwhile, Fish plots her escape from the Dollmaker, and Bruce and Selina confront Reggie.

Gotham‘s back after a short break to give us a new villain for Bullock and Gordon to search for, Fish’s escape plan, and Bruce dealing with the fact that Alfred was shot. The episode is really mix in quality.

The best part is the serial killer aspect, with Gordon and Bullock acting more like police in a weird city than going after knock-offs of Batman’s rogues gallery. The killer is interesting, and the fact it’s multiple episodes is a nice way to end the season, especially with only three episodes left.

Fish’s storyline has taken up WAY too much time in the series. It needs to end, and it looks like we’re close to that. Out of everything in this first season, Fish has been the low point.

Bruce also going out and finding Reggie is a bit odd. His storyline is only slightly better than Fish’s. Less Bruce, less Fish, better series.

The episode is just ok, and in general a weak return. The high point is we have some foreshadowing of Gordon’s future job in the police force. There’s only three episodes left, hopefully they’re better than this one.

Overall Score: 7

TV Review: Gotham S1E18 Everyone Has a Cobblepot

gotham cast While Gordon seeks information about the recent controversy with Commissioner Loeb, Fish’s allegiance with the prisoners is questioned when she appears to join forces with Dr. Dulmacher. Meanwhile, after an attack close to home, Bruce deals with the aftermath.

Gotham‘s latest episode shows the politics of work as Gordon gets rather dirty to get things cleaned up. The episode is a very interesting one where we see Gordon getting more in that gray area in order to survive.

The episode is really summed up at the end by a speech that Bullock gives to Gordon that really goes over the point of hour, but also foreshadows something to come.

Gordon’s journey is the most solid part of the episode, as the other half focuses on Fish and her ather odd journey. She deals with Dulmacher, but where that storyline is going, I seriously can’t tell. It better pay off, and right now I’m not confident it will.

The episode was a bit of a cliffhanger in a way, as the show is taking a month break. It’s not a shocking cliffhanger, but it is setting up what looks to be a solid final four episodes of the first season.

Overall Score: 8

TV Review: Gotham S1E17 Red Hood

gotham cast Following several bank robberies, Gordon and Bullock investigate the Red Hood gang. Selina Kyle continues to bond with Barbara, and Fish Mooney tries to reclaim her position in the underworld.

Gotham‘s latest episode is full of surprises in this episode which gives us a bit of a twist on the Red Hood from DC’s comics. Along with a new familiar villain, we also have a friend of Alfred show up, and movement in Fish’s storyline.

But, really the night is about surprises, especially surrounding Fish and Alfred. Both take a bit of a grisly spin, especially Fish who does something eye didn’t see coming. Her storyline is the most interesting in the fact I have no idea where it’s going. It’s a bit odd overall, and what they do with her, I seriously have no idea. But, through her we get yet another villain, the Dollmaker, who was mentioned in earlier episodes.

The episode’s strangest spin is at the end giving a twist to what happened to Alfred and why. The series is getting good at taking you in one direction, the quickly shifting it another way.

The Red Hood story is fun too, adding something for the police to do, and gives long time comic fans something to giggle about, especially at the end.

Overall, I think it’s safe to say, the series has found its groove.

Overall Score: 8

TV Review: Gotham S1E16 The Blind Fortune Teller

gotham cast The circus comes under attack while Gordon and Dr. Thompkins are in attendance.

Gotham has done an interesting thing tonight, it may have given a new origin to one of Batman’s greatest villains, and improved upon it in some ways.

This episode takes Detective Gordon to Haley’s Circus where a fight between the Flying Graysons and the clowns breaks out over a long time feud. For fans of Batman, this location has such meaning it’s hard to not get excited about it. All of that leads to the discovery of a dead body and nice whodunit. Gordon and Dr. Thompkins wind up teaming up to solve the murder, which all leads us to an interesting individual…. one who thinks things are a bit of a joke. Is this our much anticipated Joker? If so, there’s something frightening about the individual, that’s almost as disturbing as the force of nature we’ve dealt with in so many other versions.

In another story, Penguin is having some issues running his business. Zsasz pays him a visit to discuss how he’s not quite up to snuff. The fact he’s not succeeding in this venture is actually nice, especially for a character who’s played the game so well up to this point. We all know he succeeds at some point in the future, so how he gets there should be rather interesting.

Overall, the episode is a really solid one, moving various relationships forward, and giving long time Batman fans lots to squeal about. There’s five episodes to go, and I can’t wait to see them all!

Overall Score: 8.25

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