Category Archives: Sunday Roundtable

Sunday Roundtable: Have you reviewed a comic only for your mind to change after having read the following issue or finishing the arc?

JLA Roundtable raw reviewing againSundays are known for folks gathering around tables on television and pontificating about some of the hottest topics out there, offering their expertise. We bring that tradition to Graphic Policy as the team gathers to debate in our Sunday Roundtable.

On tap this week?

Have you reviewed/judged a comic only for your mind to change about the issue after having read the following issue or finishing the arc?

Daphne: Yep! My reviews of Godzilla in Hell have been all over the place because while I’ve adored individual issues for thinking they’re going to advance the plot in a specific way, the issue after goes off in some other direction and then I just get irritated that there’s no consistency. I’ve gone back and forth on every individual issue since I’ve started reviewing those comics.

I also felt like a few issues of ongoings like Squirrel Girl or the solo Groot series didn’t make sense or didn’t work on their own but definitely contribute and work perfectly taken as part of a larger whole once the full picture is clear.

Elana: I went from really enjoying Airboy to contacting GLAAD about transphobia in the comic. Issue 1: really good. Issue 2: transphobic and fucked-up.

Alex: I’ve been reviewing the last few issue of Bloodshot Reborn thinking more of the trade, otherwise as single issues you’d have no clue what’s going on. So it’s tough to review the story as a whole without finishing it.

Brett: I know I fall in to this a lot with events. Marvel events for me are notorious when it comes to this problem. The first couple of issues are great, but the longer it goes on, the less spectacular it feels, and then I go back to rethink those early issues, if they were worth reading.

Single issues, there’s always the problem of the single and the whole. A single issue can be great, but the arc, not so much, and vice versa.

Alex: This is one of the main reasons I stopped bothering with event comics.

I did read Old Man Logan this year, and it wasn’t until about the third or fourth issue that the story clicked with me and I “got” the earlier issues that I didn’t like.

Alex: Does anybody ever go back and read a story arc once it’s finished, whether in trade or in single issues?

Daphne: Oh totally. I like rereading stuff when I’ve had enough time to digest it and get a little nostalgic. I like revisiting my favorite moments, especially awesome fights or dialogue.

Brett: I may once in a while. Time is my biggest issue. There’s so many new comics to read, there’s so little time to go back.

Alex: I find I tend to read stories I haven’t in awhile when I’m sorting through my long boxes and a cover grabs me I may reread a comic or an arc (Wolverine: Not Dead Yet gets me everytime), but much like you, Brett, I find I don’t have the time. My laptop isn’t as conducive to reading digital comics as a tablet (and my phone is small).

Brett: And that’s a good place to wrap up the discussion. For those that read our site, what about you? Sound off with your thoughts in the comments!

Sunday Roundtable: All-New, All-Different Marvel…. Is it?

JLA Roundtable marvel anadOn Sunday, talking heads circle tables and pontificate on television about the hottest topics pressing our nation. We bring that tradition to our site as the Graphic Policy team gives our thoughts in each week’s Sunday Roundtable.

On tap this week?

We’re a little bit over a month into All-New, All-Different Marvel with lots of new series debuting. So far, do you think it’s really all-new and all-different?

Alex: I’ve really only read two or three comics from Marvel’s ANAD phase – Howard The Duck, Hercules and Extraordinary X-Men – and honestly? Howard was as good as it was before, I enjoyed Hercules quite a bit, but Extraordinary felt like a big prologue to the rest of the series. I don’t know if I’ll pick it up next month. From what I’ve read and seen, the reviews have been pretty hit and miss from Marvel the last month or so.

That said, some of the comics coming down the pipeline look very interesting to me (but they’re just relaunches of the series I was already reading…)

Elana: I won’t read Herc on principal. Why would Marvel editorial make one of their only bi characters straight. In Greek myths Hercules has romances with men and women. And in the comics in the past he was written explicitly as bi. Former writer Greg Pak has confirmed that about his run as well. It was a real step backwards from marvel to do this.

Amazing_Spider-Man_1_PromoMr. H: So far Amazing Spider-Man is gold! I’m not that taken with Avengers or Invincible Iron Man though. I haven’t read my copy of Extraordinary X-Men yet. I shall soon.

Brett: For what you’ve read so far? Does it feel like it’s all that different? To me, it’s pretty much the same.

Paul: I have read Extraordinary X-Men, The New Avengers, Uncanny Avengers, Hercules, Uncanny Inhumans and The Vision. X-Men feels ‘been there, done that’ with mutants facing yet another extinction level threat; it would be nice if something new could be explored instead of falling back on old formulas; new team, same reason for it. The Avengers titles, so far, have really disappointed me. I do not like how a lot of characters are being presented, which is a shame because so many great characters were added to the new line ups. Uncanny has lost its way with the many relaunches so close together, and The New Avengers just feels very juvenile and a waste of so much potential. Inhumans and Vision are the two stand out titles for me so far. Great characters, story and they really grabbed me with their first issues. I agree with Alex, some of the new ones coming up look good, but they are relaunches of what I’ve been enjoying already (hoping I still enjoy them with the new start). Overall, with only a couple exceptions, this does not feel All New or All Different. Sure we have some characters coming over from Secret Wars (Singularity and Old Man Logan, for example) but they are coming into stories and situations that feel rehashed (though A-Force hasn’t dropped yet, not sure of their mission). I’m hopeful, as always, to see what’s coming..but no, this does no feel new or different to me…so far at least. Come on and wow me Marvel!

2015-11-06-visionMr. H: Other than Amazing Spider-Man it all feels the same to me.

Of course I am going to read Doctor Strange #1 and #2 today and get a mini review up of #2 along with Secret Wars #7.

Brett: How were folks expectations going in? Anyone excited/interested in what was announced?

Mr. H: I was very excited with all new avengers and Extraordinary X-Men but not wowed yet

Alex: Not really, to be honest. I actually picked up an older Eternal Warrior comic today rather than one of the All-New, All-Different comics I could have picked up, which speaks volumes as to my interest level in what has already been released.

Brett: So far I’ve been underwhelmed, with some exceptions (The Vision being the standout). But, I can’t figure out what the new comics are missing for me. I’d outright say there’s some soul missing, but not even sure I know what that means.

What’s missing for you all?

Elana: What’s missing is diverse creative teams.

Paul: Originality is missing for me. From what I’ve read, it all feels familiar. New faces, but same stories/missions. Or in the case of New Avengers, they’ve gone in a really odd direction…feels like a bad kids cartoon show (thinking Avengers: United they Stand). I agree that Vision has been a pleasant surprise, and I really like Uncanny Inhumans. And there is more to still come and too soon for me to call this All-New, All-Different a wash, but so far it’s been ‘meh’.

Alex: Some soul?

I think you nailed it, honestly, Brett. Howard the Duck aside, there seems to be something missing, and soul (which, although an Image comic, is exactly what Limbo has in spades) is a great descriptor.

The All-New, All-Different seems underwhelming so far, but there’s still much more to come.

Brett: Yeah that’s the one word that keeps coming to me. The comics I’ve read are going through motion but missing that spark.

All-New_Wolverine_1_CoverAlex: Yeah – that’s one of the reasons I didn’t pick up All-New Wolverine today, and instead I picked up an older back issue I was looking for.

Brett: I’ve also noticed a lot of the comics riff off of other successful things. All-New Wolverine feels like Orphan Black a bit. X-Men is redone earlier plots. It’s weird.

Alex: It’s almost like they didn’t have a solid idea of where to take some comics.

Elana: Right now I think that Marvel has a lot of good books but very few outstanding ones. I know that the audiences for Squirrel Girl, Ms. Marvel and Captain Marvel are huge. I presume that Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur will be too. I liked the new issue of Howard the Duck more then the previous ones. But the title that has excited me the most has been All-New Wolverine. That wasn’t even a book I was looking out for! It just came and bowled me over.

Alex: I picked up All-New Wolverine today, largely on your recommendation, but I haven’t had a chance to read it yet.

Elana: Looking forward to getting your thoughts. I feel like the longer I think about it the more I like it.

Alex: I enjoyed it. Nothing can top Howard for me from the ANAD Marvel offerings, but All-New Wolverine was far better than I expected it to be. I think the best thing about the issue was that it felt like an organic next step for the character (I know very little about her, honestly), with forcing a female Wolverine on us because they could.

My one complaint? Drop the All-New from the title. If she’s Wolverine, title the comic as such. All-New implies that there will be a return of the old Wolverine (and I don’t mean Old Man Logan).

Elana: If Marvel really wanted all new all different they would have diversified their creative teams. Moon Girl is great but the only titles coming with black creators are still a ways off. Black Panther and Luke Cage / Iron Fist are going to be fantastic I’m sure. But it’s still a ways off.

I wasn’t particularly interested in any of the coming X titles but when the X-Plain the X-Men podcast had Dennis Hopeless on they totally sold me on his upcoming All-New X-Men teen roadtrip book. Diverse cast, cool concept.

Alex: Uncanny looks interesting to me because I want to see how they handle Sabretooth, but that’s because I enjoy seeing villains reform (however temporary it may be). Other than that I’ve found I’m more interested by books like Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur. As well as the ones I’ll be reading anyway (Moon Knight, Howard).

Brett: And there you have it folks! The Graphic Policy team has weighed in with their thoughts. What are yours? Sound off in the comments.

Sunday Roundtable: Thoughts on Comic Sites Disclosing Conflicts and Being Transparent

JLA Roundtable disclosureOn Sunday, talking heads circle tables and pontificate on television about the hottest topics pressing our nation. We bring that tradition to our site as the Graphic Policy team gives our thoughts in each week’s Sunday Roundtable.

On tap this week?

There’s much discussion about comic websites disclosing conflicts and increasing their transparency. What are your thoughts on the issue.

Daphne: It depends on my own reaction to whatever it is being reviewed, frankly – if I think something is absolutely awful and some review has a completely out-of-nowhere, universally positive review with no criticism or negative points to address, and then I find out the reviewer was given access to the comic (or game, or movie, or whatever) for free, I usually do have an “well, OF COURSE they pretended to like it” reaction. As long as reviewers are realistic, constructive, and critical in a reasonable way or can argue as to why they absolutely adored or completely hated something, I think it’s totally fine to accept things for free – but transparency is an important part of being professional as a reviewer.

Brett: Oh yeah, I’m not questioning whether it’s OK to accept stuff for free. We do! What is the obligation of that reviewer to make that known?

Alex: Absolutely.

Brett: Succinct. To the point. I like it.

Daphne: Seconded.

Alex: Ha, well, I think that the cost of a [reviewed product] can be prohibitive to some, and so when we’re reviewing those things we have a duty to get people know when we got them for free. Our opinions can be formed (when we get a review copy) purely on the merit of the comic without having to factor cost in.

I can think of several comics where I’ve encourage people to pick them up simply because of the cost (or lack there of) .

Mr. H: I think it’s very important because a reader could think that us receiving screener copies might influence how we review the comic or may play favoritism.

Mr. H: Transparency is usual a good policy imo.

Elana: People should always say if something was given for free. I think that it makes more of a difference the more value something has but there’s no reason not to disclose any price level.

Alex: I agree. Sometimes the cost of something as a customer is prohibitive. There have been a few occasions where my recommendation was Buy verses Read simply because of the cost, or lack there of.

Alex: How important do you guys feel that disclosure statements are when it comes to potential conflicts, reviews, and affiliate links?

Should they be included in both the article/post/column and on a website or just one or the other?

Brett: Depends what the conflict is. For a review, I think it should be stated at least at the bottom of the review, same with affiliate links. If a website is owned by a publisher, it absolutely should be every time they do anything involved with the parent company, and preferably also somewhere on the site itself.

When it doubt disclose, and it’s better to disclose too much than not enough.

Brett: How do folks like to see disclosures done?

Katherine: I think the way we’re doing it is just fine. Just a note on the bottom as to whether or not this was provided to us free of cost for review.

Daphne: I like to at least see them at the bottom of reviews below or following the overall scores given to the review subject. A simple “Marvel Comics flew Daphne to Los Angeles for the Captain Marvel premiere” works just fine.

Katherine: If only, Daphne.

Basically all this. Transparency is just good journalism. I don’t think getting a product free to review influences the review, or at least, it doesn’t for me. It *might* influence others, but I think any journalist worth their salt won’t really be swayed by it, and I think most people know that.

Also, I think it’s important to note that there’s a huge difference between getting material to review for free and getting paid to review it, and by stating that we received it for free lessens the view that the review might be biased.

Alex: Especially if we give a favourable review to a product without disclosing whether the product was free or not.

Disclosing something is never a bad thing if it alleviates the doubt as to a writers integrity.

Brett: So, I started the whole “free” thing because at the time a lot wasn’t and I thought there should be a distinction. Was I over thinking things?

Katherine: I don’t think so. I honestly doubt that many people pay attention to that kind of thing, and like what was said before, it’s better to be over transparent than under.

Alex: I agree with Katherine. More transparency with this kind of thing isn’t a bad thing

Brett: One last question. What do folks think about sites running ads for companies or comics they have to cover?

Alex: In theory, so long as disclosures are in place, it should be fine. That being said, the ads being set as the background to a site, rightly or wrongly, imply to me that a site endorses the product that’s being advertised. So when a favourable review of that product is written, I often equate the review as a piece of PR that won’t be worth reading.

Brett: And that’s a good place to wrap up! So, you the readers, what do you think? We throw it out to you our community. Sound off in the comments!

Sunday Roundtable: Does Free Comic Book Day and Halloween Comicfest really bring in new readers?

JLA Roundtable fcbdSunday’s are known for talking heads sitting around tables on television pontificating about the hottest topics of the week. Well, the Graphic Policy team is no exception, and each week we tackle a topic as a team.

This week’s topic?

Does Free Comic Book Day and Halloween Comicfest really bring in new readers?

Brett: I know none of us work in shops, at least none of us that I know of, but in your observations as shoppers, what do you think?

Daphne: To be honest, if it wasn’t something I’m already reading, FCBD doesn’t really do much for me. I don’t know if it’s because the comics are shorter (are they? they always seem shorter to me) or just not the A material because they’re free, but they never feel as strong or as compelling as the monthly stuff. I can’t think of a comic I ever started reading because of Free Comic Book Day, honestly. So I can say for myself that they really don’t, at least where this one reader is concerned.

free comic book dayBrett: Do you all go to either day at your shop? And if you do, what’s the crowd usually like? It seems to be a mix of regulars and parents with kids by me. I have noticed a lot of parents with kids, and the parents don’t know what to get, which makes me think they’re not regulars.

Daphne: I tend to grab whatever’s released digitally for FCBD. I haven’t been to a comic book store since I moved to Portland a couple years ago. I remember the crowd being mostly dads who wanted to get their sons into comics using the free comics, more than anything else.

Sarah: I don’t know if it brings new readers, but FCBD helped me choose a store when I moved to Chicago. It was a good way to see how well they were managed and how the staff treated people who weren’t the stereotypical comics readers.

Alex: I’ve started one series because of FCBD (The Fox from Dark Circle), but by and large I don’t think either day is as effective at attracting new readers as they could be, rather the effectiveness of those days lays in enticing existing fans to new series.

Brett: The stores around me are usually packed for FCBD, but I’m not sure how much long term it helps. I’d love to know if there’s been studies about that, but doubt there have been.

Elana: I wish there were studies. Like so much in the comics industry nothing is scientific, even when it could be.

I do think I see more kids in the shop that date.

I wasn’t aware of the Halloween event.

HalloweenComicFest-2015Alex: The Halloween one is a smaller event, but there are still some cool comics available.

Brett: Is it mostly kids you all see at your local events?

Elana: Kids with their parents plus the hardcore fans. The time I spent Free Comic Book Day in the Long Island burbs that was the case at least. I gave the free kids comics to my nieces and nephews. The second to worst big 2 comic I’ve ever seen was the DC FCBD book the year that the Green Lantern movie came out. It was dumb. Dumb. Dumb. The best free comic book day book was the Avatar the Last Airbender comic a few years back though all of their’s are great.

Alex: I usually head down relatively late in the day and by that point there are few people in the shop that I don’t recognize (and fewer comics left, too), but I usually see more adults and teenagers than kids.

Brett: Does anyone actually plan on going to the Halloween Comicfest this year? I’m doing a day trip, so can’t it this year.

Elana: I’d never heard of it till now. And I go to my LCS every week.

Brett: Do you know if any of your shops plan on doing anything special?

Alex: I’m pretty are my shop will have a few comics in (they did last year), so I’ll head down for it. If nothing else I’ll probably grab a few comics for some non comic reading friends

Brett: Well, that wraps up this week’s chat. For our readers out there, how is FCBD and Halloween Fest at your local shops? Sound off below in the comments.

Sunday Roundtable: Is there a place for politics in comics?

JLA Roundtable politics comicsSunday’s are known for talking heads on television discussing and pontificating about the latest hot topics around a table. We’re bringing that tradition to our site with the Graphic Policy team debating tough topics in our own Sunday Roundtable.

This Sunday’s topic? With lots of discussion about the political themes of Captain America: Sam Wilson #1, is there a place for politics in comics?

Troy: I think most of the Big name Comic Publishers owe their block buster events to politics. i.e Secret Wars, or Civil War in Marvel. I think the stories that leave the most impact and spur the most discussion are the most memorable and enjoyed. It’s hard for me to read or enjoy any story involving the Shi’ar without considering the long-term legacy of colonialism and cultural syncretism. If a comic can help us orient our own political world, that speaks to its strength as a form of media in my opinion. How best to consider the limits of justice and the ethics of vigilantism, when we have years of rich Batman lore?

Brett: Yeah, it’s interesting that Marvel has almost embraced politics in their recent events. Even Dark Reign had a tinge of politics. For me some of the best entertainment, especially sci-fi, is commentary about the world we live in, in a fantasy setting. Not much of a shocker, but I enjoy when my entertainment has something to say.

mlp economicsDaphne: If we want comics to be considered a respectable and legitimate art form, I think comics have to take politics into account. Writers and artists have to be able to use their storytelling mediums as a lens for viewpoints and discussion. I don’t think EVERY comic has to do that – I wouldn’t expect to see a discussion about the .com bubble bursting in My Little Pony – but I think that if the comic is age-appropriate and it doesn’t detract from or ignore world building and come off as forced and heavy handed, adding a political slant can be very effective.

And it helps readers know which creators they want to support or not support, if they have those concerns.

Brett: MLP is the perfect place to have a discussion about trickle down capitalism! Just kidding.

Elana: But I’m pretty sure it does have gender politics

Brett: Very good point. It does.

I also think comics really had their roots in politics to start. Some of the earliest were political cartoons, which then turned into strips which commented on society at the time. They were a discussion of the haves/have nots and class. There’s a long tradition.

havok-16Troy: Now that I think about it you’re right Brett, I’d say a good 90% of the Golden Age (I think it’s golden age) comics were war or post-war stories. It makes sense for publishers to flow within that tradition. That said, I am of the opinion that there can drawbacks to this, specifically when a given political narrative begin to eclipse a given character’s voice. I think most of us remember Havok‘s infamous “M-word” speech from Uncanny Avengers Vol.1 issue #5. As well as Wanda’s sentiments on minorities soon after. For me those initially felt somewhat shoehorned and not consistent with character…..but then I had to remember Havok is a Caucasian blonde haired blue eyed mutant. And perhaps sentiments on mutant identity aren’t so uniform. Still this dilemma of political narrative and voice stands on a very thin line.

Do you see any other drawbacks to how or perhaps when politics are deployed in comic narratives Brett?

Brett: Really good question. To me the drawback is if it takes you out of the narrative. But, that’s a sign of bad writing to me. Some of the best is when you don’t even realize there’s politics in it. Thinking out of comics, Star Trek was amazing at that. Then when, I don’t think there’s ever an issue. If it works, and fits, then go with it.

Joe: I absolutely think there is a place for politics in comics. Comics are no longer pure entertainment or relegated to the “funny pages”. They have graduated to modern literary art. I think no topic should be off limits in a comic book. I enjoy when they make social commentary, whether I agree with the view or not. That is how you keep new ideas in constant flux. I don’t agree with the new storyline for Captain America personally, but I can appreciate it’s value for readers and fans.

Blondie-and-Dagwood1Brett: But weren’t even the “funny pages” political? Blondie and Dagwood was as much about marriage dynamic as it was the laughs.

Joe: Guess I never thought of that. Great point sir.

Brett: Family Circus is very conservative in its values. I will say, I might have trouble arguing Garfield is political, so there are some that are straight entertainment, as there should be.

thanos recycleDaphne: And not every comic has to be! Some comics would absolutely not work with a political slant. Mutts having comics about adopting shelter animals and getting pets neutered makes sense because it’s focused so heavily on the lives of house pets. But taking a detour in the middle of Guardians of the Galaxy so Thanos can remind us to conserve water by turning off the faucet when we brush our teeth would be awful.

Alex: The idea of Thanos giving a conservation speech made me choke.

Joe: Hahahaha!

Elana: Isn’t that the point of our site? And even the absence of politics is political.

Alex: For me, whether I think about it or not – and I didn’t until recently, comics and politics go together like peanut butter and jam (yes I said jam, not jelly, I’m English!).

Just take a look at the newspapers the day after the Canadian federal election where Justin Trudeau won a Liberal majority – there were some fantastic single panel comics that said more with a handful of words and an image than a full essay could have hoped too (I’m thinking specifically of the “just imagine if he was ready” comic).

Brett: Very good points everyone. Now, you the readers, what do you think? Sound off in the comments below!

Sunday Roundtable: How much does the diversity of the characters or the creators affect what you read?

JLA Roundtable diversitySundays are known for experts sitting around tables pontificating on today’s hottest and most debated topics. We’re keeping up that tradition with our own Sunday Roundtable where the Graphic Policy team debates a topic.

On tap this week?

How much does the diversity of the characters or the creators affect what you read? Is it something you think about when reading comics?

Elana: It’s a huge issue for me. I pay attention to it closely

Brett: So, the reason I ask and threw this up there as a topic, there’s only a handful of creators I actually follow, and most of the time, I couldn’t tell you who is writing or drawing what.

It’s something I care about (different voices is a good thing), but not sure how much it actually impacts my buying or reading habit.

Having varied creators and characters is a great thing, even just for the variety, but I really wonder how much it impacts folks in their purchasing or reading?

Cyborg #1Elana: For me a HUGE part of what i read is who is writing or drawing it. That’s how I can go so long without reading books about my favorite characters (like Green Arrow). I will always at least look over anything coming from a diverse team. I will always give it a once over. Unless it’s about fighting robots. or video games. But you knew that ;p

I am more likely to give a book a chance (if I am unsure of it) if there is diversity in the team. I kept reading Black Widow long after I should have stopped because I love Noto and she’s BW.

Oh, the only reason I tried Cyborg was that there was a black writer on Cyborg. Cyborg has been a highly problematic character for me for the reasons that Son of Baldwin laid out in his essay. And my gamble paid off because that book is great.

Elana: Another white writer on Cyborg would have botched it again, chances are. But Walker rehabed the character for me and made the book both interesting and politically significant in it’s discussion of blackness and disability. and also aliens. So that example incapsulates to me why I look for diversity. It makes better comics and it’s the right thing to do.

Brett: Yeah, hearing about an interesting character or creative team will get me to look. And yeah, Walker being on Cyborg definitely got me more interested in trying the book out (and happy I did).

I’m not sure I could tell you all the creators of the comics I read though, which is what got me thinking about this.

Daphne: This is a huge issue for me, and it definitely affects the comics I want to spend my money on. I think about these things because I’ve grown up wishing I could see people like me in comics – seeing nothing but straight white men when I’m none of those three things is discouraging and there’s this impression or implication that they’re “normal” and anybody else, well, isn’t. It can make a person feel unimportant when there’s no representation for them in fiction, and I avoid supporting projects that just whitewash everything and ignore the contributions and presence of everyone who isn’t white.

It does go a bit deeper than that though, of course. Knowing a writer or artist has actually undergone or is aware of the struggles and disadvantages any given monitory faces means the stories and plot beats feel more genuine. It’s easy for people who don’t have that person experience to emphasize the wrong aspects of a scenario, or to come off as vague or patronizing. Nobody likes to be ignored, and nobody likes to be patronized either.

Elana: Well said!

Brett: Can either of you think of comics you didn’t read or did read because of this?

Airboy02_CoverDaphne: When I heard the outcry about Airboy using transphobic language and dialogue in an issue I decided the skip the whole thing. I don’t have the time or energy to waste forcing myself past something offensive in the hopes it doesn’t happen again, if the writers who used that plot element or dialogue in the first place clearly don’t care or see why somebody might have been bothered. I’d rather vote with my wallet and go onto something else. I did actually go back and buy the Batgirl trade paperback where they fixed all the dialogue that was kind of iffy and questionably transphobic because the writers did such a good job being compassionate and understanding and admitting they messed up. That’s admirable, a heck of a lot more so than throwing up their hands and saying “everybody is too PC, I give up trying to do anything because you’re all crazy SJWs” Jerry Seinfeld style. If you can’t tell a story or a joke that doesn’t involve punching down at somebody who likes or admires you, the problem is your lack of creativity, not the audience. Or at least that’s the way I’ve always felt about stuff like that.

Brett: I think that’s my big question, it’s an issue that’s important, I want more diversity in characters and creators, but can’t think of a comic where it’s actually impacted my reading it. Walker on Cyborg got me more interested, but I’d have probably read at least the first issue or two.

Elana: I’m sure there have been books where i said “ugh, another white dude writing xyz”. I definitely think the team on Birds of Prey upon the new 52 launch made me less enthusiastic. The only reason I’m thinking of picking up Superman (a comic i have never read) is gene luen yang. When Batgirl relaunched I was skeptical of the premise until i saw the strong, feminist, costume design and that Babs Tarr was doing art. Then once I began reading it I saw that the male writers on the book were strong feminist voices. But I did not assume that from the initial pitch. So the involvement of a female artist with a feminine sensibility on the title vouched for the men on the team. And now I’m a convert. Fletcher is on my short-list of dudes that can write women (him, Rucka, Whitley, Gillen).

I find that most of the best artists in comics are women or gay men. The broke-back poses, bad anatomy, blank facial expressions, people wearing casual clothing that no humans actually wear, lack of developed aesthetic sense, is almost universally men coming from within the standard comics system. It didn’t used to be this way. Prior to Liefeld even straight white men could draw ok. But that turning point really led to a huge downward slide that we are only now working our way out of. and the improvements and changes are largely driven by people from outside the comics club.

I suspect that as a result of the new open-ness in style, exposer to non-western comics art, tumblr and increased awareness of the work of women, people of color and queer men in comics the next generation of artists (straight guys included) will be more developed and nuanced in their style. The big two seem to be finally loosening up on having a really ugly house style. You can thank women and gay men for making those improvements. May the end of the need for the need for EscherGirls.com be near.

Alex: Usually when I plan to pick up a comic I do so based on the character/characters involved, or the brief snippet I’ve read about the comic, and sometimes, if there’s a specific creator involved. I rarely, if ever, make my decisions based on the diversity of the creators.

Monique: It’s quite an issue for me but because I love comics I don’t think about it too much? However the lack of diversity in most aspects (gender, race etc.) is concerning. For example, I was so excited for Vixen, but I didn’t realize how short it would be? I was shocked when the end credits came on after like 5 minutes

Joe: This is a great discussion and sometimes a hot bed issue. For me it’s only when forced diversity tends to ruin or muddle long standing continuity for the sake of shock value. I do not agree with this philosophy. The biggest example of this is what DC Comics did with Wally West. A character that was my entry and conduit into the comic book world. I grew up as Wally grew up. When DC did the new 52 reboot it destroyed all this. However I don’t have an issue with him being African American per se, as I love the CW The Flash show and he surely will be on that. I just would prefer creators make a new character i.e. Miles Morales than force feed diversity on an existing one.

Daphne: I don’t buy the forced diversity argument. Nobody claims “forced science fiction” when aliens show up in a comic book, and if a character who isn’t white showing up in a story feels like some kind of intrusion it’s time to take serious stock of that franchise and the story they’re telling. There’s nothing forced about being inclusive and portraying a world where white isn’t the default – because it isn’t, in the real world. We don’t live in a population of 90% white Americans and their comedic brown friends.

Brett: Can either of you think where it hasn’t worked? Marvel’s move of diversity in characters has all felt pretty organic so far, and made sense to me.

Lois_Lane_106Daphne: If we go back to stuff like Lois Lane going “Superman, you have to use this machine to turn me into a black woman for 24 hours!” in the I Am Curious (Black) comic, sure. But that stuff was forever ago. So far what Marvel and DC have been doing makes sense to me and feels natural. Especially when it comes to titles that aren’t forever tied to one individual person but things like the power of Thor or name Captain America.

Brett: Yeah that Lois Lane story is infamous at how tone deaf it was.

Joe: Daphne, agree with the sense you’re using it. However I was implying to changing the race or background of a long standing character simply for pandering or shock value. i,e, Wally West the second Flash.

I am a huge fan of race in succession characters. Such as Sam Wilson as Captain America or Miles Morales as Spider-Man even Nick Fury in the Ultimate Universe. Those are all great successes and fantastic characters. But I wouldn’t be like lets make Bruce Wayne Asian all of a sudden. When creators have compelling stories and reasons I’m all on board, but if not then use that creativity and create a new character. It’s shoddy and uninspired.

Alex: To play devils advocate: what difference is there between Ultimate Nick Fury and New 52 Wally West?

Brett: Samuel L Jackson doesn’t play Wally West. And with that we’ll wrap up our discussion. What about you the readers? What do you think? Sound off in the comments!

Sunday Roundtable: At what point do you decide to stop reading a comic?

JLA Roundtable stop readingSunday’s are known for their roundtables of experts debating hot topics on television. Graphic Policy is having some fun with that tradition, tackling a tough topic concerning geekdom. Join us for the Sunday Roundtable!

This week’s topic: At what point do you decide top stop reading a comic?

Alex: I almost feel like a broken record with this answer, but lately I’ve stopped reading comics after a reboot or a relaunch. Typically, I’ve already begun loosing a bit of interest in the series before then, and as much as the reboot provides a great jumping on point, they’re also great jumpin off points.

Daphne: It probably depends on the reboot, too. I imagine a lot of people dropped old Wonder Woman comics during that period in the 1970s when she had no superpowers and was learning martial arts and they tried to make her a lot more mundane and ‘realistic’, or whatever that was. I’d have stopped reading until that story arc ended and she had her superpowers and the character direction I like back again.

Elana: When a comic is suddenly wildly transphobic it’s easy for me to drop it (hi Airboy). But I suck at breaking up with a series in less outrageous circumstances. I get FOMO (fear of missing out)– that as soon as I stop reading a good but not great comic it’s suddenly going to improve. And then I’ll be short an issue! Darn! Help!

Katherine: For me it depends on a number of factors. Let’s assume that money isn’t a factor here, and that you can afford all the comics you want (since being on a budget and having to pick and choose which comics to keep seems to be the primary reason.) The primary has to do with problematic creators. Nothing will make me drop a comic faster than if the good hard money I’m spending is going towards a creator who is consistently racist/misognystic/homophibic/etc. We all know that the comics industry has a real problem of harboring and coddling the alpha males and I really don’t want my money going to support that.

The other thing that gets me to drop a comic is just a general drop in writing quality. If I’m eyerolling every other panel, or question why I’m reading something that both brings nothing to the table and isn’t interesting then I’m more likely to drop it. I usually don’t drop a book based on it’s artwork, since I can see beyond most of it, though. I mean, after all, I loved Charles Soule’s She-Hulk run while hating almost all of Javier Pulido’s art (I mean, he’s a good artist, but he’s not my style (plus all of his characters look wall-eyed (but at least he was better than Ron Wemberly who’s just terrible))).

Elana: Ron is Awesome! I liked Pulido on she-hulk. It was a great fit– house-style would have killed that story. Sorry to side track I just have to defend my guys!

But I agree that I don’t usually drop a book because of the art. If I did I’d have very little to read. They like to pair so many of the best writers with the tackiest artists. Think of all the times that Kieron Gillan was working with Greg Land…

Art by someone I appreciate will make me far more likely to pick up a book that has mediocre writing. It’s what kept me on black widow for so long.

Katherine: You seriously like Ron? Ron who gave us this?

Ron

Elana: Yes. The best piece by him was here his Vertigo book Prince of Cats.

Katherine: We’ll just have to agree to disagree with this one.

Daphne: Sometimes if a story feels like it’s not going anywhere I’ll take a break and wait to find out if the story gets better at some point. If something is really dragging or it’s just spinning its wheels harping on some plot point or character I don’t care about, I’ll move onto something else. I’ll also stop reading if the story takes a direction I think is stupid or just insulting. Turning Jubilee into a vampire was dumb and annoying enough for me to give up on X-Men comics for a while – she’s a much-maligned character I genuinely love and I didn’t like the whole “let’s make her DARK AND EDGY so she doesn’t suck anymore!” vibe it gave me.

I’m a big advocate of the idea that people vote with their wallets. I won’t buy something if it’s racist or transphobic or just bad and boring. I’ll wait until I find something that deserves my money and spend it on that instead, you know? I’ve also stopped reading things because I thought they weren’t funny or interesting. My funds and time are limited. I have to be super picky so I don’t waste either.

Brett: It’s usually tough for me to drop something. I’m such a completist, and I always feel like I’m missing out.

I always try to find a good ending point though, like finishing the story arc, or when a series ends and is being rebooted.

Alex: I try and do the EXACT same thing as you, here.

Brett: Anyone else have that weird compulsion to keep going, even when you know it’s bad?

Katherine: If I can. It’s that little voice in the back of your head that says that maybe this’ll get better…

Brett: Yeah, there’s definitely that.

Daphne: Yeah. Or you feel like you’ve spent so much time and effort and money on it that at this point it’d feel like a waste to give up before it ends. Sometimes I get that but it’s more common with tv shows because I’ve been watching for such a long time and I might as well see it through.

Elana: Mediocre yes. Bad no. Bad I can drop w a vengeance. But if it’s only so so and there’s a creator on it I really respect– especially from a diversity standpoint it is hard to do.

Alex: If the series was great, and has occasional flashes of brilliance amidst the mediocrity then I will think about dropping it… But I’ll still keep buying it.

Elana: Has anyone dropped a book and lived to regret it?

Alex: Yup; Ultimate Spider-Man. I kept reading after Peter died, and enjoyed Miles, but when they were putting him into every Ultimate title (that I had been dropping slowly) I just didn’t have the heart to keep going.

Katherine: Not really? I mean, usually if the book gets good again, I pick it back up and wait for the trade paperbacks for the back issues.

Alex: I wish I could do that! I’m too much of a collector – if I start a series in single issue format then I need to keep picking them up that way.

Katherine: I just can’t afford to do that anymore, sadly. frown emoticon

Alex: Honestly, it limits me to what I actually buy – I pick up maybe five comics a month, and lately that’s been even less with Secret Wars happening (and some of those Marvel titles I won’t be picking back up, because I don’t miss them).

Joe: When the creative team goes off the rails lol

Paul: When characters I’ve read for a long time get a new writer, and suddenly I don’t recognize them anymore.

Brett: So that wraps up our discussion, and we go to you the readers! When do you decide to stop reading a comic?

Sunday Roundtable: How Would Get New Comic Readers?

JLA Roundtable raw more comic readersSundays are known for their talking heads sitting around a table talking about pertinent topics, and pontificating with their expertise. We gather the Graphic Policy Team each Sunday to do exactly that in our Sunday Roundtable.

This weeks topic, what can publishers and creators do to try to get new readers into comics?

Alex: Not relaunch their comics every five minutes?

Brett: Bwahahahahaha!

Elana: You don’t think the new readers more likely to pick up a comic book that says it’s number one in a series? Because I imagine that people are more likely to do that. People find it intimidating entering something at issue one hundred. That said when they’ve done some relaunches they haven’t been honest brokers and actually began something in a clear way from the first issue.

If your issue one is not new reader friendly and then why the hell is it issue 1?

I don’t recall how Marvel‘s .1 initiative went. It seemed like a possible solution. I figured the problem was that potential new readers didn’t know it was happening.

Alex: I think you hit the nail on the head there. Marvel’s .1 happened over such a long time that it was easy to forget it happened. And the constant relaunches aren’t as all encompassing as DC‘s New 52 tried to be (but even that was convoluted as to what did and didn’t happen).

If you’re going to relaunch something, don’t build it on, or keep referring too, stories new readers would not have read.

Also, with the amount of new number 1’s, nothing feels as if they’re going to stick around. If a comic makes it to 20 issues, then it feels as if it’s been a long running series…

Elana: How do you reconcile needing to have new number ones for people with helping people feel invested in something for a longer time? I still think that ultimately this is a real challenge. But if they stagger things so that there are some long-term pieces while there are other more contained comics and they can make it clear from the start was going to be what that could help.

Alex: That’s just it; there’s no good answer to that; you can ether have a long running series and whenever there is a new arc do what Valiant have been doing and have it announced in the cover, or have a mix of miniseries and some longer running comics (even a 12 issues maxi series could work).

How feasible that really is, though, I have no idea.

Daphne: The most prohibitive thing for me when I started getting into comics was not having an idea of where to begin. From an outsider’s perspective, when you look at the yearly events, the vast amount of characters, the ridiculous deaths and plot twists and retcons and alternate dimensions, it’s almost impossible to figure out where to start. Ignoring things like the fan culture around a given property potentially keeping new comers away (because that’s a whole other can of worms), the biggest thing for me was worrying I’d start with a story arc that ended up going nowhere or didn’t matter to the character’s backstory or plot, or get really invested in a character that was just going to get ignored for years or written out entirely.

I think a great way to get new people into comics would be to annually or semi-annually create some kind of summary of a property or franchise explaining the world and the current status quo. “Interested in getting into The Splendiferous Stilt-Man? Here’s everything you need to know!” Making something like that available to people would do a lot to alleviate the feeling that any given comic is slowly collapsing under the weight of its own canon and there’s no good point to start reading.

This, I think, is the one thing the MCU has done best. Whether I agree with all their decisions or not, the writers have been creating a very specific and clearly defined universe with what are for millions of non-readers now the definitive versions of characters. Not only is it easier to keep track of everyone right now but the writers also excised a lot of the weirder aspects of comics. “Ultron is an evil robot Tony Stark created who tried to destroy humanity and was defeated, then never came back” is way better than “one time Ultron uploaded his consciousness into the nanites in Tony Stark’s body and reshaped his body and armor into the form of a naked silver woman because he’s in love with Hank Pym”. Maybe some of the fun bits and pieces get lost along the way from time to time, but the popularity of the MCU films made it much easier for me to feel like I had a basic grasp on characters and plot and then go right to the new updated series for characters like Ms. Marvel so I could see how she’d eventually fit into the films. It makes it simpler for casual observers or people like me who want to get into comics but don’t have any idea where to start (and don’t want to ask online and get a million conflicting, argumentative answers) actually figure out what they want to read and where to begin.

Avoiding relaunching comics and massive yearly events that reshape the status quo but not really thanks to editorial mandates to bring back certain things would help too. But a basic “here’s this character, this is her backstory, her current plot line is this and involves these people” on a website or even in comic form would do so much.

Elana: They can start freaking advertising them in the first place by doing advertisements on Facebook for example. We have long said that everyone who says they like the Avengers movie should be seeing Facebook ads for Avengers comics that are new reader friendly. This is marketing 101.

They can let the public know they have diverse characters and genres and tones and bring on more diversity in the writers and artists so that people who have assumed that comics aren’t for them can see themselves represented.

They can also do a better job of making it clear which comics are aimed at children and getting those in to the book market would go a long way.

No more mega crossovers.

Alex: When I first started reading comics, and in many ways when I’m thinking of new series now, there were no big events happening on a yearly basis. Yeah, there were multi part stories, but those multipart stories were almost always contained within the comic. Like Daphne and Elana have said, the major events are turning people off from getting into comics (or starting new series).

Christopher: Honestly, I think a large chunk of it, has to do with proper marketing and advertisement. Especially given the popularity of superhero/comic book based tv shows and movies. However, Marvel and DC both really need to stop with the reboot/re-launch things, it kind of screws people over who are just trying to get into comics. Even third parties like Image, Dark Horse, Vertigo, Action Labs, etc; aren’t as well known as their mainstream counterparts. That may be a better place to start, since they don’t tend to do reboots. Also companies should embrace apps, like comiXology, iBooks, Kindle since given the accessibility of most technology,it would make a good point to start there, with introduction series.

Monique: Personally I would simply say advertising outside of the comic book environment. I never see comics advertised unless I’m at a comic con or comic book store. When advertised in these environments, it’ll be hard to gain a lot of new customers. (Assuming the majority there are already into comics). The only way I find out about other comics is by when I’m reading them and I see the ads in them. Plus since it’s already something I love, I will take the time out to see what is out there.

Furthermore, I find that the people who aren’t really into comics aren’t around the people who like them. For example, my father is a huge comic book fan and that definitely has had an influence over my love for the comic book universe.

Alex: I’d never really thought about the advertising, or lack there of, of comics outside of the comic book community, but that makes absolute sense. Rather than spread your existing readership thin, advertise elsewhere an bring in new blood.

Do you guys think television ads would work, maybe for trades, or billboards…?

Christopher: Probably start with billboards, with a mix of advertisements on it. TV ads may reach a lot larger of audience but with. TiVo and such things, who knows if they are actually watching the ads

Elana: Facebook ads are cheap, targeted and infinitely scalable. The Shield TV show should run ads for Shield related comics. But generally let’s start with a sane contextual marketing campaign in Facebok.

Daphne: I could see television ads working. “You’ve seen the movies, now get the WHOLE story. Marvel’s Civil War, blah blah blah…” is a pretty logical opening for a commercial.

Brett: What about just an ad/url during movies or on the tv shows? Or doing a digital comic tie-in with Fandango (or printed comic to hand). I think I’ve seen the latter two, but doesn’t feel like it’s common.

Alex: Walking Dead has their Second Screen app to use during live tv screenings. Obviously this couldn’t work during a movie in the theater, but you could probably program something to work during a Blu-ray viewing.

Monique: I think an add/url during the movies would be great as it puts an emphasis on the fact that these films and TV shows were originally comics.

Daphne: Plus, free stuff! I’d love getting a free comic with a movie ticket. I used to beg my parents to see things like the Pokemon movies when they were giving away free cards. It’d bring in even more younger fans and curious newcomers too.

Brett: So interesting spin on this. When The Walking Dead hit, folks I know who have never read a comic, grabbed trade paperbacks and started reading those comics. But, have don’t that with the Avengers. There was a point I’d see multiple people with Walking Dead trades in my commute. Why did that show clearly bring people in, when other comics, it’s not quite as clear they have?

Monique: I always assumed it was because DC And Marvel have had comics since late 1930’s and The Walking Dead collection doesn’t look daunting? Because when i started buying comics sometimes I felt like as if I needed some previous comics from many years ago.

Daphne: I think it’s definitely because TWD has a much less daunting, more simplistic premise compared to a decades-long superhero epic. People who’ve never seen a zombie movie still know how zombie movies work. People who’ve never read a Black Panther comic book usually don’t know what his powers are or how he works.

Brett: Both very interesting points.

Alex: You can also read the entire The Walking Dead released so far in a reasonable time. It’s a cohesive story that isn’t mired in continuity. Plus it has zombies.

Brett: And as far as solid marketing, we see “street teams” with so many products where they go out and do some grassroots marketing, where’s that for comics?

Daphne: For better or for worse, I think comics and nerd culture in general have the opposite – the die-hard fans aren’t usually the ones trying to share what they love with other people, they’re the ones angriest when comics try to become more mainstream or diverse or accessible to newcomers. Just about every girl I know who isn’t into comics but wants to be avoids it because the fan base is so insular. It’s the reason I do all my comic shopping digitally – I worry about how a girl in a comic book store is going to be treated. I’ve heard too many horror stories.

But I was hesitant to bring that up because it feels like it’s big enough to be a whole topic all to itself.

Brett: A topic for another roundtable!

Elana: Daphne if your ever in NYC I’m taking you comic shopping!

Daphne: Deal!

Christopher: I think the closest thing that the industry has to this, is Free Comic Book Day. While it may not be a large thing in the mainstream media, it certainly does tend to bring in “newbies” for comics. Downside the comics offered seemed to have a mixed audience appeal. However maybe instead of getting into comics as an adult getting them as a kid may end this unnecessary elitism

Alex: I think that in many ways, and for better or for worse, we (comic book websites, blogs and the like) serve a similar function as the street teams. But we don`t reach the non comics fans in the way an actual team would do, and really, while we want to encourage people to read comics, we`re not going to blindly advertise a comic that we think is awful or offensive.

So really we`re not like them at all. I had a point to make here, and I’ve lost it.

Brett: Is the issue at hand that the publisher’s goal is to sell to stores and not directly to customers, which is the store’s job?

Monique: Both perhaps?

Alex: Aye; the publisher just wants to move units and may not be thinking as much about an audience as they probably should be. The bigger the publisher, the less likely it will be for every comic to be read, unlike smaller publishing houses like (to an extent) Valiant, 21 Pulp and Action Lab.

Brett: And with that, we’ll wrap up this roundtable. Sound off with what you think in the comments below!

Sunday Roundtable: Is it really “All-New, All-Different”?

Sunday Roundtable All New All DifferentEach week the Graphic Policy team takes on a topic in a virtual roundtable discussion! Sunday’s are known for their roundtable talk shows. This week’s topic…

We’re about a month out from All-New, All-Different Marvel. What do you all think about the relaunch/revamp/restart, and is it really “All-New, All-Different”?

Troy: Marvel’s been flirting with an Uncanny, All Old….All Same, addiction to superlative adjectives.The constant demarcation for new jumping on points is starting to feel like a marketing gimmick……fresh stories and status quo aside…I miss the days when the stories just flowed…..and we weren’t inundated with a disturbingly repeated cycle of new Number 1’s. This may be an unpopular opinion…but I enjoyed collecting (digitally and in print) 200+ issues of X-men and observing for myself where the stories evolved and how the landscaped changed.

Elana: But new readers won’t know what a good jumping in point is unless we tell them. thats clear to me from the convos i have with new readers

All-New. All-DifferentBrett: Yeah, the adjectives are getting out of hand. I think my favorite comments on it was when Skullkickers kept rebooting to a first issue with a new adjective thrown in front.

As far as All-New, All-Different, it doesn’t feel all that new or different yet to me. There’s some interesting series they’ve announced, but there’s almost no creators or series announced where I’ve gotten super excited about them. I’ll give them each a shot, but there’s no “must read” right now for me.

Alex: I’m with Troy. I miss collecting (and reading) long runs that number into the hundreds. Aside from there being a rich hosts of the team in those pages, the comics flowed so well as an overarcing story.

The influx of new number ones may draw new readers in, but the end of one “volume” makes it SO EASY to drop a comic that you think isn’t as good as it should be, because they give you a convenient dropping off point.

Elana: If they really wanted all new all different they would be bringing new voices in to the marvel universe– preferably people of color, women, people who are lgbtq, folks from other countries etc. There are new titles that look more inclusive in terms of the characters but that only goes so far if they are mostly written by straight white guys. There seems to be a bit of range in terms of what sort of tone and genre notes each book will hit. Over all I am concerned with the lack of diversity most of all. There are definitely a few books on the list that I am looking forward to but over all this is a missed opportunity.

All-New All-Different Marvel TeaserBrett: I think Joe Illidge said it really well when he saw it as a half step.

Elana: It’s a half step that is hard to have faith in when so far their response to fans who raise concerns has been to mock us. I’m really shocked by that.

Brett: What books are folks actually looking forward to, if any?

Elana: Doctor Strange potentially. spider woman potentially (these are both with some trepedation). Devil Dinosaur. Moar Squirrel Girl. Amadaus Cho Hulk (because it’s Greg Pak writing it), Angela (!!!!!!) Blade, A-Force (I’ve found the series mediocre so far but I will give it another go when it restarts ) Patsy Walker Hellcat

Alex: Honestly? Very few. Howard The Duck, because the first five issues were great (and the writer poked fun at the reboot in the final issue), Old Man Logan because I miss Wolverine, and that’s pretty much it. Maybe one of the Spider-Man titles, but I already know I won’t care about all of them… And if there’s ever a tie in story then I’m more apt to drop them all.

Daphne: I’m looking forward to the comics that are changing things up in interesting ways by either focusing on characters who we haven’t seen from in a while (Patsy Walker: Hellcat, more Squirrel Girl) or by changing characters in new ways like Devil Dinosaur and Miss Marvel. I’m liking A-Force a lot, though it started off a little rocky, and I missed out on ALL of Spider-Gwen so I’ll probably use this as a point to start checking it out.

Alex: I think that with the constant relaunching that Marvel have been doing lately this latest batch of relaunches feels, to me at least, like just the latest in a long string. I don’t feel the need to get invested in a series because they’ll probably just relaunch it again after next years event.

All New All Different Marvel Teaser 2Brett: Do any of them feel that much different than their relaunches when they pushed Ms. Marvel, Captain Marvel, or Spider-Woman?

Or does it all feel like it blends together at this point?

Alex: I feel it all blends together, which is unfortunate because I know that my indifference will prevent me from reading some great comics.

Brett: Out of the two, which excites everyone more? The recent DC relaunch or this upcoming Marvel one?

Alex: I don’t know what this says about my enthusiasm for DC lately, but if I had to pick? Probably Marvel (to quantify this, I pretty much only read Batman and Detective Comics from DC – and have for years – so I don’t really have the interest in the other DC characters that I do for Marvel’s). How about you, Brett? Which publisher’s relaunch is tickling your fancy?

Brett: Out of the two, DC I think had more intriguing and different comics with their relaunch. Prez, Cyborg, We are Robin, Omega Men. All seemed different and interesting to me.

Alex: Yeah, you’ve really been loving Cyborg. I want to pick Omega Men up in trade form when it’s released (I don’t think my LCS doesn’t have all the issues).

Brett: Some interesting thoughts here! Thanks everyone for the input.

Sunday Roundtable: DC Comics, Should it Be One Cinematic Universe?

JLA Roundtabledc movie and tvWelcome back for our second Sunday Roundtable where the Graphic Policy team take on a topic and discuss it throughout the week. On tap?

Though we’ve only had hints so far, DC Comics has split their television and movie universes (there’s two Flash for example). Should it have all been integrated? Discuss!

Monique: I would have preferred it if everything was integrated as it would feel a lot more real. It’s nice when things are connected and fun when audiences can spot things that link the DC universe together. However it’s nice to have a TV show to look forward to every week.

Alex: I think in many ways splitting them up gives each show more creative freedom (but if rumours are true, then Arrow had to drop Deadshot because of the Suicide Squad movie – not 100% sure on that, though).

batman v s uperman dawn of justiceMr. H: I like it split. We all know Batman V Superman is going to be epic, but I like the feel of shows like Arrow and Flash which have done beyond what I’ve ever expected. DC owns the small screen for sure! I am looking forward to Legends of Tomorrow and Supergirl as well. It like in wrestling, you have the main eventers and the mid carders. The tv shows are the midcarders and let you appreciate it more because they work harder. Personally I want an Aquaman show. It’s well over due and the time is right. I hope they don’t integrate because they give us different flavors. Like on a tv show we might get underutilized characters like Ralph Dibney. Where we wouldn’t on a movie. For everyone that likes chocolate chip. There’s always someone that likes Butter Pecan. Good quote (Identity Crisis)

Brett: But is it really split? DC is all about the multiverse. There’s no reason we can’t see some giant Crisis film and the multiple same characters come together. I actually think DC has an advantage over Marvel due to that.

Alex: You know what? I had never thought of that until you mentioned it, Brett. That being said, will it actually happen? It’d be awesome if it did, but I suspect we are at least five to ten years away from that possibility.

Monique: That is a very interesting point, never thought of it like that Brett.

Alex wouldn’t it be relative to their budget though? If we’re talking about Marvel, Samuel Jackson was in the movies Iron Man, Avengers, Captain America but made an appearance Agents of Shield.

arrowBrett: Yeah, it’s interesting that DC is dominating the small screen too with this strategy and it’s allowed them to do such diverse programming. Agents of Shield had been so hit and miss. It really just feels like I watch the season to get to the movie tie in. DC I watch because it’s good television that also has geeky easter eggs.

And adding to DC too is their web content. They launched the Vixen animated series which is set in the Arrow/Flash universe.

Monique: Yeah, I’ve been watching it, it’s fantastic. I agree, they’re definitely dominating in all aspects and I think they always have done really, in terms of shows movies and cartoons

Alex: I think that’s the advantage to Shield; because it has the movie tie ins, more people are willing to stick it out on the lows. DC’s TV shows have to be consistently good (which is only a good thing for fans).

Elana: The vixen launch was not adequately promoted. I didn’t find out it already started in fact! As for the division I just really resent them turning Green Arrow into Batman. Admittedly I never watch the show because it so obviously had nothing at all to do with the character that I actually love. But it’s just aargh.

Alex: I’m enjoying Arrow so far, but I also agree with you Elana. It feels far too Batman like at times (I know Green Arrow was at one time very imitative of Bats, but I’m pretty sure that was long ago). I’ve never read any Green Arrow, though, so I don’t really have much expectation of what he should be.

Brett: I also find it interesting that DC has really played with the tone of each television series, and wonder if we’ll see that carry over to the movies.

Alex: Do DC have a similar structure governing their television/cinematic output that Marvel had up until recently? I ask because I wonder whether the tonality has been a conscious choice of a group, or simply the creative freedom allowed by DC’s approach.

theflash_full_costumeBrett: As far as how it tv ties to movies? Nope. Everything stands on its own so far. There’s the Arrow/Flash/Vixen/Constantine universe, there’s the Man of Steel/upcoming movies, and there’s Supergirl and Lucifer (not counting iZombie). Each has their own tone/style even within their own grouping.

Shield‘s style mimics the films I think, and that seems to also hamper it a bunch. Agent Carter wasn’t vital to the film narrative and felt a bit free to me.

People give DC a lot of crap, but when it comes to TV they’re knocking out of the park (plus their animated stuff). And the movies are set up, it looks like, for similar freedom.

Alex: It’s true. Last year Constantine was one of the best shows on air before it was cancelled. And whilst I keep hearing great things about Gotham I stopped watching after the first four or five episodes. Why? Because it was competing for my time with Shield (yes, I know they air on different nights, but I DVR most things and watch them later), and Shield has the benefit of being part of the MCU.

If Fox can pull off an X-Men TV show, do you think it’ll be odd essentially having two Marvel TV universes or not?

Brett: No different than it is now, right? The big difference is DC controls all of its output (or parts of their parent company does), unlike Marvel.

Here’s something that’d fit the discussion, is there too much when it comes to television shows. We have to be near saturation in film, but how many shows is too many shows? If there even is such a thing.

Alex: Honestly, for me, we’re dangerously close to over saturation. My wife isn’t as big a comic fan as I am, and really only wants to watch a few shows (Flash, Arrow and maybe Heroes or Supergirl), which leaves me a lot to squeeze at other times; and obviously things fall by the wayside, and I end up not watching half of what I want to watch.

Do any of you have a list of shows you’re willing to drop s the season goes on?

Brett: I review them, hard to drop them! The one good thing is that some won’t be out in the Fall and will be out in the Winter, but there’s still about a half dozen this fall?

Melissa Benoist Supergirl 2Add on top of it, some are going head to head. It’s Gotham vs Supergirl Mondays!

Alex: Yeah, I suppose you’re slightly more obligated to watch them than I am, eh?

Brett: But, beyond splitting the DC universe, do they risk hurting the movies because people love the shows too much? Will people who like the Flash tv show brush off a Flash tv movie? I can’t figure out if folks will let each stand on their own. Hints of reactions may be similar to reactions with the Batman and Spider-Man reboots.

Alex: I think the problem we’re closing in on isn’t that there’s simply not enough time in the day for most people to watch all the comic book TV shows and other TV shows. Laugh all you like, but next week there’s two programs starting up that I’m super excited for; the two hour Heroes Reborn premiere and, uh, Grey’s Anatomy. I’m sure that won’t be the only conflict.

Brett: I’ll admit I watch Grey‘s. I’ve dedicated all this time, I want to see how it ends. Yeah, I haven’t even thought of Heroes as a comic show, but it’s similar in subject.

Alex: To your last comment: I’m more willing to skip the Flash movie because of the TV show. Which I’m sure isn’t their intent at all.

At the end of the day, there is a lot of great TV happening this year, both comic book and not. I think there’s going to be some great shows cancelled that shouldn’t have been (like Constantine last year – I still am not over that).

« Older Entries Recent Entries »